If a cat plays with a mouse it is not torture. Definition of torture: "Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion."
A cat doesn't want to punish or coerce the mouse. She does it to train her reflexes. It's biology. Life feeds on life. We can't live without taking life. It's a survival mechanism. All this has nothing to do with torture.
Drowning rats out of curiosity - no matter if academically justified - is insane, sick and disgusting in my opinion.
Your definition of torture doesn't seem to cover the rat situation, as I don't think the researchers were attempting to punish or coerce the rats. I don't really want to debate too much what the proper definition is though, so maybe something like "causing unnecessary severe physical pain or trauma for the purpose of punishment, coercion or entertainment of the torturer." (That isn't a very good definition, either.)
At any rate, while we don't know why dolphins will brutalize porpoises apparently just for the hell of it, or orcas will use their tails to launch seals so high into the air that their skins delaminate upon hitting the water, and not eat them afterwards, they definitely don't seem to care about the state of their target, nor are they eating it. Best we can tell, it is just for fun. Chimps are just horrific, humans without the moral inhibitions, doing all sorts of horrible things to each other.
Ugh... and seals... seals get gross with penguins, among other things...
Yes, and a sense of direction -- as losing one's way even on solid ground is demoralizing.
I understand the findings of the drowning rat experiment, and share the abhorrence readers have expressed for such investigation.
But here's something I've noticed -- this "species" thing. No other being divides creatures into taxonomic categories. I hear admirable concern expressed -- by brave men and women -- for the survival of our "species" in the face of what does appear to be an assault on all humankind, even every living thing without access to a personal jet aircraft. Our assailants aren't interested in torturing us, per se, they just want to get rid of as many of us as soon as possible. If the fabric of life has to be ripped apart from the bottom up to do so, it's for the greater good of the smaller number: a new creature, above taxonomic categorization, who regards the extinction of almost the entire human race as somehow salutary.
I asked one of the most pandemic-convinced of my colleagues in the hospital: "What happens after you die of C*vid?" The only answer ventured was "cremation". A Jehovah's Witness has trouble with the question: "What's so bad about being annihilated?"
-- a question much the same as that asked by Socrates in Plato's Apology.
I don't recall Linnaeus assigning humankind a slot alongside or a branch out from other taxa -- I'm pretty sure that had to wait for Darwin. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Gates &c.
I venture that reference to a human "species" is inherently dehumanizing -- an unwitting racism, frequently expressed by our best and bravest public figures, but sickeningly close to the edge of the 20th century's mass graves, and that now enlarged at some warp factor or other which threatens to swallow us all.
In 1975, my mother, who had been fighting against inhumane cancer treatments for 6 years, decided she’d had enough of the pain and suffering having only had 6 months respite in this 6 years. She said she wished she’d never started the “treatments”.
She’d had enough. A week later she died.
I didn’t need to see the destruction caused by lockdowns, I knew at the age of 19 what happens when spirit is crushed. I’m just grateful that none of my family were in this disgraceful situation when the insidious schemes were hatched.
My father-in-law was in a care home for the last 6 years of his life when he died at 93 in 2017, there is no way that he would have understood or coped with what others were put through. He wouldn’t have survived a month without the regular visits and outings we had with him.
I ought to have included some more information about my sister.
In 2012 she was diagnosed with multiple myeloma and had been enrolled in an experimental drug trial, without my knowledge.
When I found out, and she asked if I’d consider being a bone marrow donor, I told her that I would on condition that she came off the trial as it was obviously wrecking her. She couldn’t walk 100 yards.
I added one more condition, that she agreed to follow a nutritional supplement protocol that would give her a fighting chance by supporting her immune system’s battle.
My wife was a nutritional medical consultant for almost 40 years. We knew that it would be her only chance, in spite of the bs she was being fed by the hospital.
As it turned out I was only an 8/10 match so wasn’t considered good enough to be s donor.
I cannot say what the protocol was but suffice it to say that soon after coming off the drugs and taking the supplements she was walking her dog 7 miles a day.
For 8 months she lived a normal life, but every 2 weeks she had agreed to go for tests at the hospital.
After 6 more months they started pressuring for her to go back on the trial - they were clearly not going to get paid out if she didn’t - and after one set of tests they told a blatant lie to try and get her back on the drugs. I pointed out to her why it was a lie, but 2 weeks later, when she questioned them she was lied to again but told that if one particular reading got worse she could be dead within a week and capitulated immediately.
It was a horrendous lie but it worked. The particular reading was at 8.1 but standard protocol was to watch and wait until or if it hit 30 so absolutely no need to do anything.
The really sick part was that “because you are so healthy, we can give you the maximum dose, double what we gave you before”. Within 48 hours she was worse than she’d ever been.
She refused to talk to me after she told me that if I was in her position I would have done the same.
I tried to reason with her but she now only trusted the people who had the most to gain.
She also told me I was untrustworthy and that she never wanted to see me again.
I found out after the event, that she died 8 months later in a hospice, having never recovered any level of health.
Basically, they killed her for the money.
She should have learned from our mother’s experience, but as I was at home and she was living in Canada at the time, she wasn’t as close to it as I was.
When “healthcare” is more about money than anything else, there will always be victims and the winners never risk anything.
They just don’t all look the same.
The moral of this particular story is that medicine, and experimental drugs, are all about the money.
Covid, and the experimental drugs, was only ever about the money but with money comes power and control.
That’s all starting to unravel but how much of it comes out before the drawbridge gets pulled up is another matter entirely.
I am so sorry. You did all you could. Most people cannot think clearly at all when in a fear state and that is what they did to your sister. They always tell people the worst case scenario with Cancer - to get them signed on for $$$ treatments. I understand because I saw how they manipulated my Father who previously was the strongest willed human being I ever met. It was around the time of the media bleating on about how Steve Jobs tried natural treatments so he wound up dead. Job's case heavily influenced my Father, sadly. Year later, I heard rumors that Jobs actually had HIV. I wonder because back then, more and more people were looking into alternative treatments and TPTB had to squash that quick.
Yes, they can be, and frequently are, quite brutal.
One of the things she complained about was how her mind was being affected by the drugs but when I said that she wasn’t thinking straight because of her “chemo brain” (a phrase she’d used a couple of times) she overreacted and became quite abusive. That was the beginning of the end of our relationship, but not her fault in any way.
On Jobs, his basic problem was that for many years he was a “fruitarian” believing that it was the healthiest way to eat. Unfortunately, given the amount of fructose he was consuming it acted as a constant and massive attack on his pancreas for long periods, culminating in pancreatic cancer.
He would also almost certainly been diabetic.
I doubt very much that he was hiv+, there’s no reason to suspect that other than from his cancer ravaged appearance.
I lost an elderly friend last year who, in a matter of weeks, looked fit and healthy but cancer took over rapidly and made him look like a Belsen survivor. It all depends on the type of cancer and what it’s attacking as to the overall effect on the body.
Yes, and for what? To satisfy a researchers curiosity. This should be outlawed. This mindset is very, very dangerous. If they do it to rats, they do it to humans if they can, as the Nazi experiments showed. Disgusting.
The basic problem is that as long as there is general acceptance of the need to have drugs to overcome problems, then testing has to be done on something.
It’s all very well protesting about testing on animals but Mengele didn’t get much approval for experimenting on humans… what’s your solution? Are you volunteering? You won’t find me in that queue, that’s for sure.
I am willing to live in a world that totally eschews all cruelty to animals. I also personally believe we never needed ANY of the synthetic drugs created by pharma. Plant-based drugs were all quite sufficient. Most pharma inventions do more harm than good. They really don’t care. It’s all about profits with them.
From what I understand, the main purpose of experimenting on animals is that, it trains the experimenter to be callous. And to justify that callousness in order to 'save human lives.'
Furthermore, we never know if the animal model is applicable to humans. Thus, at the end of any aninmal experiment we still do not know what effects the experiment will have on humans. Innumerable humans have been damaged by treatments pioneered on animals but not transferable to humans. Likewise, we don't know what treatments have been lost because they did not pass animals tests but may well be useful to humans.
Humans are always the experimental animal - usually unaware of the fact.
Every time I read things like this about what was done to all of us, I’m enraged all over. Fortunately, my parents had died several years b4 the scam. IDK what I would have done if they were held hostage like this. I will never forget any of it, ever
When I do suicide risk assessments a critical component is hopelessness. If I detect hopelessness, the risk of suicide is very high. Hopelessness is as important as the lethality of the plan.
I would put Curt Richter and scientists of his ilk in high sided containers of water and prevent them from floating. To induce this amount of fear, panic and hopelessness on any living being you are pathological by any measure.
Curt Richter was a monster. I'm no fan of rats, but my god, to let them die like that is unimaginable. Mary Shelley and Nathaniel Hawthorne were right about the monsters that science produces.
Yes, the beagle puppies. 😭 At this point, nearly all the truly helpful and compassionate discoveries have been made. Is it time to shut down all medical research and focus instead on ethics and morality?
Maybe the first step would be to get rid of “scientific ethics” and just focus on morality instead.
I’m not a philosopher, but from what I’ve read many “ethicists” have a very skewed sense of morality .... especially when it comes to issues such as abortion and assisted suicide.
It sometimes seems that these “ethicists” are trying to outdo each other’s moral depravity.
(Speaking of “scientific ethics”, isn’t Fauci’s wife the lead ethicist for NIAID?)
NE, thank you for continuing to write about how people were hurt by the lockdowns. It drives me nuts that so many people (too many) have just decided that "It's all behind us now."
We cannot allow all that suffering to have happened in vain.
Very affecting essay, though heart-rending, since I think they really do think of us as lab animals or livestock. Just linking around I found a reference to that old evil dead freak B.F. Skinner, whose "utopia" was outlined in a novel called Walden Two (a travesty to borrow from Thoreau), which spawned a bunch of "utopian" experiments. I bet this is Klaus' favorite book, along with Beyond Freedom and Dignity. Probably the prototype for that wizened creep Harari also. Stimulus response and conditioning. I still say we should put all of them on an asteroid or in an Escape from New York scenario and weld them in, let them condition each other, nudge each other, brainwash each other, then maybe eat each other when the bugs run out. Ann Masden, a leading international scholar of resilience, says hope predicts resilience. It is a practice, not a feeling. Like the end of Shawshank Redemption, Morgan Freeman: "I hope, I hope"
The phalanxes of demoralizing, nudging, behavior modification troops can frog march themselves into the machine they keep trying to solder us into and shut the door.
Dec 4, 2023·edited Dec 4, 2023Liked by NE - Naked Emperor Newsletter
If you enjoy causing needless suffering and pain to innocent creatures with no voice, a career in science might be for you. Veterinary science is even more bang for your bucks.
So many of these 'virologists' cut their teeth (literally) in animal science.
Hope. One of the most powerful forces (another being love) for living creatures.
Take it away and you have compliance, passivity or inertia.
Give hope, and mountains can be moved, revolutions created and they will never, never surrender.
Hope is never convenient for global dictators/fascists or technocrats.😉
So we tortured the animals to see what happens when hope is taken away.
I see... I'm thinking... any species that engages in torturing other species... is a disgrace.
You are going to have a low opinion of many species, I am afraid. Cats, dolphins, chimps, orcas, just the first four off the top of my head.
Are you suggesting these animals torture each other?
They torture other animals
If a cat plays with a mouse it is not torture. Definition of torture: "Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion."
A cat doesn't want to punish or coerce the mouse. She does it to train her reflexes. It's biology. Life feeds on life. We can't live without taking life. It's a survival mechanism. All this has nothing to do with torture.
Drowning rats out of curiosity - no matter if academically justified - is insane, sick and disgusting in my opinion.
Ask the mouse if it's torture?
Your definition of torture doesn't seem to cover the rat situation, as I don't think the researchers were attempting to punish or coerce the rats. I don't really want to debate too much what the proper definition is though, so maybe something like "causing unnecessary severe physical pain or trauma for the purpose of punishment, coercion or entertainment of the torturer." (That isn't a very good definition, either.)
At any rate, while we don't know why dolphins will brutalize porpoises apparently just for the hell of it, or orcas will use their tails to launch seals so high into the air that their skins delaminate upon hitting the water, and not eat them afterwards, they definitely don't seem to care about the state of their target, nor are they eating it. Best we can tell, it is just for fun. Chimps are just horrific, humans without the moral inhibitions, doing all sorts of horrible things to each other.
Ugh... and seals... seals get gross with penguins, among other things...
Yes, and a sense of direction -- as losing one's way even on solid ground is demoralizing.
I understand the findings of the drowning rat experiment, and share the abhorrence readers have expressed for such investigation.
But here's something I've noticed -- this "species" thing. No other being divides creatures into taxonomic categories. I hear admirable concern expressed -- by brave men and women -- for the survival of our "species" in the face of what does appear to be an assault on all humankind, even every living thing without access to a personal jet aircraft. Our assailants aren't interested in torturing us, per se, they just want to get rid of as many of us as soon as possible. If the fabric of life has to be ripped apart from the bottom up to do so, it's for the greater good of the smaller number: a new creature, above taxonomic categorization, who regards the extinction of almost the entire human race as somehow salutary.
I asked one of the most pandemic-convinced of my colleagues in the hospital: "What happens after you die of C*vid?" The only answer ventured was "cremation". A Jehovah's Witness has trouble with the question: "What's so bad about being annihilated?"
-- a question much the same as that asked by Socrates in Plato's Apology.
I don't recall Linnaeus assigning humankind a slot alongside or a branch out from other taxa -- I'm pretty sure that had to wait for Darwin. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Gates &c.
I venture that reference to a human "species" is inherently dehumanizing -- an unwitting racism, frequently expressed by our best and bravest public figures, but sickeningly close to the edge of the 20th century's mass graves, and that now enlarged at some warp factor or other which threatens to swallow us all.
In 1975, my mother, who had been fighting against inhumane cancer treatments for 6 years, decided she’d had enough of the pain and suffering having only had 6 months respite in this 6 years. She said she wished she’d never started the “treatments”.
She’d had enough. A week later she died.
I didn’t need to see the destruction caused by lockdowns, I knew at the age of 19 what happens when spirit is crushed. I’m just grateful that none of my family were in this disgraceful situation when the insidious schemes were hatched.
My father-in-law was in a care home for the last 6 years of his life when he died at 93 in 2017, there is no way that he would have understood or coped with what others were put through. He wouldn’t have survived a month without the regular visits and outings we had with him.
And people wonder why I know so much about cancer treatments nd why they’re only about making money and nothing to do with cures.
I ought to have included some more information about my sister.
In 2012 she was diagnosed with multiple myeloma and had been enrolled in an experimental drug trial, without my knowledge.
When I found out, and she asked if I’d consider being a bone marrow donor, I told her that I would on condition that she came off the trial as it was obviously wrecking her. She couldn’t walk 100 yards.
I added one more condition, that she agreed to follow a nutritional supplement protocol that would give her a fighting chance by supporting her immune system’s battle.
My wife was a nutritional medical consultant for almost 40 years. We knew that it would be her only chance, in spite of the bs she was being fed by the hospital.
As it turned out I was only an 8/10 match so wasn’t considered good enough to be s donor.
I cannot say what the protocol was but suffice it to say that soon after coming off the drugs and taking the supplements she was walking her dog 7 miles a day.
For 8 months she lived a normal life, but every 2 weeks she had agreed to go for tests at the hospital.
After 6 more months they started pressuring for her to go back on the trial - they were clearly not going to get paid out if she didn’t - and after one set of tests they told a blatant lie to try and get her back on the drugs. I pointed out to her why it was a lie, but 2 weeks later, when she questioned them she was lied to again but told that if one particular reading got worse she could be dead within a week and capitulated immediately.
It was a horrendous lie but it worked. The particular reading was at 8.1 but standard protocol was to watch and wait until or if it hit 30 so absolutely no need to do anything.
The really sick part was that “because you are so healthy, we can give you the maximum dose, double what we gave you before”. Within 48 hours she was worse than she’d ever been.
She refused to talk to me after she told me that if I was in her position I would have done the same.
I tried to reason with her but she now only trusted the people who had the most to gain.
She also told me I was untrustworthy and that she never wanted to see me again.
I found out after the event, that she died 8 months later in a hospice, having never recovered any level of health.
Basically, they killed her for the money.
She should have learned from our mother’s experience, but as I was at home and she was living in Canada at the time, she wasn’t as close to it as I was.
When “healthcare” is more about money than anything else, there will always be victims and the winners never risk anything.
They just don’t all look the same.
The moral of this particular story is that medicine, and experimental drugs, are all about the money.
Covid, and the experimental drugs, was only ever about the money but with money comes power and control.
That’s all starting to unravel but how much of it comes out before the drawbridge gets pulled up is another matter entirely.
I am so sorry. You did all you could. Most people cannot think clearly at all when in a fear state and that is what they did to your sister. They always tell people the worst case scenario with Cancer - to get them signed on for $$$ treatments. I understand because I saw how they manipulated my Father who previously was the strongest willed human being I ever met. It was around the time of the media bleating on about how Steve Jobs tried natural treatments so he wound up dead. Job's case heavily influenced my Father, sadly. Year later, I heard rumors that Jobs actually had HIV. I wonder because back then, more and more people were looking into alternative treatments and TPTB had to squash that quick.
Yes, they can be, and frequently are, quite brutal.
One of the things she complained about was how her mind was being affected by the drugs but when I said that she wasn’t thinking straight because of her “chemo brain” (a phrase she’d used a couple of times) she overreacted and became quite abusive. That was the beginning of the end of our relationship, but not her fault in any way.
On Jobs, his basic problem was that for many years he was a “fruitarian” believing that it was the healthiest way to eat. Unfortunately, given the amount of fructose he was consuming it acted as a constant and massive attack on his pancreas for long periods, culminating in pancreatic cancer.
He would also almost certainly been diabetic.
I doubt very much that he was hiv+, there’s no reason to suspect that other than from his cancer ravaged appearance.
I lost an elderly friend last year who, in a matter of weeks, looked fit and healthy but cancer took over rapidly and made him look like a Belsen survivor. It all depends on the type of cancer and what it’s attacking as to the overall effect on the body.
This made me cry. All experiments on animals should be illegal. They are sentient beings. So awful I can’t bear it.
Yes, and for what? To satisfy a researchers curiosity. This should be outlawed. This mindset is very, very dangerous. If they do it to rats, they do it to humans if they can, as the Nazi experiments showed. Disgusting.
Yes. I actually do agree with the lefties on this and look for the “cruelty free” labels on products.
I know.
The basic problem is that as long as there is general acceptance of the need to have drugs to overcome problems, then testing has to be done on something.
It’s all very well protesting about testing on animals but Mengele didn’t get much approval for experimenting on humans… what’s your solution? Are you volunteering? You won’t find me in that queue, that’s for sure.
I am willing to live in a world that totally eschews all cruelty to animals. I also personally believe we never needed ANY of the synthetic drugs created by pharma. Plant-based drugs were all quite sufficient. Most pharma inventions do more harm than good. They really don’t care. It’s all about profits with them.
From what I understand, the main purpose of experimenting on animals is that, it trains the experimenter to be callous. And to justify that callousness in order to 'save human lives.'
Furthermore, we never know if the animal model is applicable to humans. Thus, at the end of any aninmal experiment we still do not know what effects the experiment will have on humans. Innumerable humans have been damaged by treatments pioneered on animals but not transferable to humans. Likewise, we don't know what treatments have been lost because they did not pass animals tests but may well be useful to humans.
Humans are always the experimental animal - usually unaware of the fact.
Every time I read things like this about what was done to all of us, I’m enraged all over. Fortunately, my parents had died several years b4 the scam. IDK what I would have done if they were held hostage like this. I will never forget any of it, ever
Still makes me enraged.
When I do suicide risk assessments a critical component is hopelessness. If I detect hopelessness, the risk of suicide is very high. Hopelessness is as important as the lethality of the plan.
I would put Curt Richter and scientists of his ilk in high sided containers of water and prevent them from floating. To induce this amount of fear, panic and hopelessness on any living being you are pathological by any measure.
Alfred Kinsey
And don't let them forget remdesivir or ventilators.
No doubt isolation desperation, loneliness, hopelessness resulted in much great harm to include deaths that otherwise would not have happened.
They are only humans... who cares? It's not as if they were rats being drown ... just to see what would happen
Curt Richter was a monster. I'm no fan of rats, but my god, to let them die like that is unimaginable. Mary Shelley and Nathaniel Hawthorne were right about the monsters that science produces.
Talk about monsters, I seem to remember something about Fauci and beagles.... not to mention people.
If anything, I think things have gotten worse.
Yes, the beagle puppies. 😭 At this point, nearly all the truly helpful and compassionate discoveries have been made. Is it time to shut down all medical research and focus instead on ethics and morality?
Maybe the first step would be to get rid of “scientific ethics” and just focus on morality instead.
I’m not a philosopher, but from what I’ve read many “ethicists” have a very skewed sense of morality .... especially when it comes to issues such as abortion and assisted suicide.
It sometimes seems that these “ethicists” are trying to outdo each other’s moral depravity.
(Speaking of “scientific ethics”, isn’t Fauci’s wife the lead ethicist for NIAID?)
You are right about that. Ethics, as science understands the term, unrecognizable as a branch of morality.
As Oscar Wilde truly said...
“Disobedience was man’s original virtue.”
Thanks for the quote.
This was the whole point. Without hope, populations are more compliant. Mission accomplished.
NE, thank you for continuing to write about how people were hurt by the lockdowns. It drives me nuts that so many people (too many) have just decided that "It's all behind us now."
We cannot allow all that suffering to have happened in vain.
Very affecting essay, though heart-rending, since I think they really do think of us as lab animals or livestock. Just linking around I found a reference to that old evil dead freak B.F. Skinner, whose "utopia" was outlined in a novel called Walden Two (a travesty to borrow from Thoreau), which spawned a bunch of "utopian" experiments. I bet this is Klaus' favorite book, along with Beyond Freedom and Dignity. Probably the prototype for that wizened creep Harari also. Stimulus response and conditioning. I still say we should put all of them on an asteroid or in an Escape from New York scenario and weld them in, let them condition each other, nudge each other, brainwash each other, then maybe eat each other when the bugs run out. Ann Masden, a leading international scholar of resilience, says hope predicts resilience. It is a practice, not a feeling. Like the end of Shawshank Redemption, Morgan Freeman: "I hope, I hope"
The phalanxes of demoralizing, nudging, behavior modification troops can frog march themselves into the machine they keep trying to solder us into and shut the door.
Wow. What a study. We will never forget.
If you enjoy causing needless suffering and pain to innocent creatures with no voice, a career in science might be for you. Veterinary science is even more bang for your bucks.
So many of these 'virologists' cut their teeth (literally) in animal science.
And I'd suggest many are primed by being sadistic children.
It takes a certain mindset to be willing to inflict wanton cruelty "just to see what happens" .