[1] “Arrogance is absolutely inevitable in a person— an uneducatedperson, that is— who enjoys some advantage, or at least thinks he does, even if he doesn’t. [2] A tyrant, for example, claims to be the most powerful man in the world. So what can you do for me with your power? Can you ensure that my desires are never impeded? How could you, when you can’t do that for yourself? That my aversions effectively prevent the occurrence of things I want to avoid? No, because you can’t do that for yourself. That my inclinations never lead me astray? I don’t see that as one of your gifts. [3] Tell me: when you’re on a ship, do you place your trust in yourself or in the expert? When you’re on a wagon— yourself or the expert? [4] What about any other area of expertise? Same story. So what does your power amount to?
“‘I’m the focus of everyone’s attention.’ Yes, and I attend to my plate; I wash it and dry it, and I drive a peg into the wall for my oil flask. Does that make these things more powerful than me? No, but they’re useful to me, and that’s why I attend to them. Don’t I also attend to my donkey? [5] Don’t I wash its feet and rub it down? Can’t you see that everyone attends to his own needs, and attends to you as he does his donkey? I mean, who cares for you as a person? Point him out to me. [6] Who wishes to be like you? Who takes you as a role model, as they do Socrates? ‘But I can have you beheaded.’ You’re right. I’d forgotten that I should attend to you in the same way that I attend to a fever or cholera— that I should set up an altar to you, just as Fever has an altar in Rome.*
[7] “What is it that’s usually found troubling, even frightening? The tyrant? His bodyguards? Is that possible? Hardly! It’s impossible for something that’s naturally free to be troubled or impeded by anything except itself. [8] Only his own judgments trouble a person. When a tyrant tells someone, ‘I’m going to chain your leg,’ only a person who has come to value his leg says, ‘Please, no! Have mercy!’ But anyone who judges his will important says, ‘Go ahead, if you think
p114 Epictetus: the Complete Works
that’s the most expedient thing for you to do.’ ‘Don’t you care?’ ‘No, I don’t.’ [9] ‘I’ll show you that I’m your master.’ ‘How will you do that? Zeus has set me free. Do you really think he’s going to let his own son be enslaved? You’re the master of my carcass: take that.’ [10] ‘You mean to say that when you’re in my presence, I’m not the focus of your attention?’ ‘No, I’m attending to myself. If you want me to tell you that I attend to you as well, here’s what I say: I give you the same kind of attention that I give my kettle.’
[11] “This isn’t selfishness; the creature in question was born like this. It does everything for itself.* Even the sun does everything for itself, and so, for that matter, does Zeus himself. [12] But sometimes Zeus wishes to be ‘the Bringer of Rain,’ ‘the Fruitful,’ and ‘Father of Gods and Men,’ and you can see that he can’t perform these functions and deserve these titles unless he makes some contribution to the common good. [13] And (without going into details) he equipped the rational creature with a nature which is such that its own particular goods are unattainable unless it makes some beneficial contribution to the common good. [14] In which case, doing everything for oneself isn’t selfish. [15] Anyway, do you seriously expect someone to neglect himself and his own interest? In that case, how could all living creatures share the same fundamental drive; namely, appropriation to themselves?
[16] “It follows, then, that when someone entertains uncouth views about things that aren’t subject to will— that is, when he labels such things good and bad— he is absolutely bound to dance attendance on tyrants. [17] If only it was just the tyrants, and not their chamberlains as well! How does a person become wise all of a sudden when Caesar puts him in charge of his closestool? How come we suddenly say, ‘Felicio had some wise words for me’? [18] I’d like to see him demoted from his dung heap, so that you’d regard him once more as a fool. [19] Epaphroditus had a shoemaker who was so useless that he sold him. But then it so happened that the man was bought by a member of Caesar’s household and became Caesar’s shoemaker. You should have seen the respect Epaphroditus showed him! [20] ‘What’s up, Felicio, my very dear friend?’* [21] Moreover, if one of us asked, ‘What’s the master doing?’ he was told, ‘He’s in a meeting with Felicio.’ [22] But hadn’t he sold him as useless? So
discourses, book 1 p115
who suddenly made him wise? [23] This is what happens when someone regards as important anything other than what is subject to will.
[24] “‘He’s been made a tribune.’ Everyone who runs into him offers his congratulations. One kisses his eyes, another his neck, slaves kiss his hands. He goes home and finds lamps being lit for him.* He goes up to the Capitol and offers a sacrifice. [25] But who has ever performed a sacrifice in thanks for the fact that his desires went well, or because his inclinations were in accord with nature? After all, it’s things we count as good for which we thank the gods.[26]
“Someone was talking to me today about the priesthood of Augustus.* ‘Steer well clear of it, man!’ I advised him. ‘You’ll incur considerable expenses for nothing.’ [27] ‘But when bills of sale are drawn up, they’ll be inscribed with my name.’ ‘But you won’t actually be there when people read these contracts, will you? “Look: that’s my name written there.” [28] And then, even supposing that you were in fact able to be physically present at every signing, what will you do after your death?’ ‘My name will survive me.’ ‘Carve your name on a rock and it’ll survive you. But tell me: who will remember you beyond Nicopolis?’ [29] ‘But I’ll wear a golden crown.’ ‘Well, if you really want a crown, get a crown of roses and put it on. That’ll look more chic.’”
1.20 On Reason And Its Ability To Examine Itself
[looks like an interesting discussion.]
all the best with what has changed in 2024! and with everything that is to change in 2025! everything changes! with peace, respect, love and exuberant joy.
Pretty sure if stoicism and actual philosophy was still taught in schools (not the BS versions currently passing as "philosophy"), we wouldn't have ended up here as a society or had the last 5yrs.😉🤔🤦♀️
although, at that time, epictetus like gautama did 600 years earlier, that most people did not want to know these truths!
it has come to me that the fear of death as our biggest fear as humans is a kind of ... what ? false flag? distraction? a form of untruth with enough truth to be swallowed easily, perhaps. hmmmm. odd thought. i might extend that idea from my recent post on how the, or at least a, purpose of the moon landing lie was for people to swallow that lie. when we believe lies, imo as i explored there, it extends schismogenesis between body and mind, soul and mind because soul doesn't exist fully without the body.
what is more fearful than death, imo, is to be fully 100% yogic/stoic, which means to be 100% responsible for the experiences of this life. that was the challenge gautama was faced when he was looking for people to understand the meaning of dependent co-arising. epictetus and the other stoics have the same problem: each of us are 100% responsible for the choices we make. most would rather not see that truth, remain in avidya, and so suffer the other 4 kleshas and function outside the realms of the yamas and the niyamas. yes, promote fear of death to keep us sheeple, and downplay the importance of the courage to be responsible! i admit the necromancer-narrative-controllers have done a really excellent job of indoctrinating avidya, to see as false what is true, what is true as that which is false, and that which is neutral as either true or false.
in 2022 someone asked me why so many (so-called) yoga centres did not refuse to comply. why so many did not remain equanimous and indifferent. a great question. i wrote a reply to that that you my find interesting. if interested, no pressure because i am indifferent to your opinion or action and because that is the truth of our experience as we live freely from entanglement, here is:
Q: 'I agree that [yogic calmness] is important, so how do we account for all the yoga teachers who fly Ukraine flags and require masks in their studios?' — Audio
A: Yoga as drug. (note: audio has link to text version if you prefer.)
Guy Duperreault. (Audio version Nov 06, 2024, original from aug 2022.)
again, barefoot, great to meet you and all the best with what has changed in 2024! and with everything that is to change in 2025! everything changes! with peace, respect, love and exuberant joy.
i found my self feeling a greater affinity with the writings of the stoic few people talk about, Epictetus. (although when we search him on line he is often referred to as the greatest voice of stoicism.)
when i read him so many years ago — the 1990s i think — i was astounded that the only thing that distinguished his descriptions of the society and thinking and politics and money was the beautiful and distinct way he spoke. his application of the vital and grounding philosophy of stoicism was a game changer for me. and i was delighted and surprised that it shared many common characteristics with taoism! omg! and that edward de vere (aka shakespeare) was likely both taoist and stoic because stoics see the humour in life!
one of the great lies was to make the perception of stoicism that of being cold and unfeeling, inhuman. to be stoic is to be above human, 'transhuman'! this was to take them out of the game of providing a path, skill, knowledge on how to become 100% reliable on our own selves and not reliable on outside authorities. imo. and now i think i understand why the humanities stopped teaching people like him to teach marxist things like crt, post-modernism, etc: to make people stupid and victims. stoicism is the 180º opposite, of course. and so i just had an aha — the humanities are transhumanist in their action while posturing words of inclusion!
and with having gotten where i am, more completely waking up with the convid from my partially awakening about media and economics from the 1980s, i've recently come to think that stoicism has been subject to attack by the necromancer-narrative-controllers because true stoics do not fall into being easy prey to narcissistic controllers. and that was also what happened to the yogis in ancient india — when the controllers of the day, ie moguls, were trying to take control of their kingdoms, the yogis were uncontrollable. thus it came to pass that teaching yoga became a crime punishable by death.
an example within the debasement or denigration of stoicism is how their idea of 'indifference' or dispassion has come to mean frigidity or coldness of someone uncaring. nope! it means to remain calm and to engage with the 'good' the 'bad', the joyful and the sad with equanimity, with the calmness that allows for appropriate optimal eccentric action in all circumstances. the yogic idea of a mind free from the fluctuations that expand suffering.
1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, more simply, all that are not our own actions.
The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. On the other hand if you realise that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you will not be harmed.
Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you chose not to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you quit some things and may for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved.
Work, therefore to know unequivocally the truth that every harsh appearance is no way different from every beautiful one: "You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be." And then examine them by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether they concern the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if they concern anything not in our control, be prepared to say that they are of that which is nothing. end quotation.
as mentioned, i liked his complete works and had a copy of the britannica word's greatest books with that. (with the yoga of aparigraha i wound up selling it with my 1100 other books in 2020 at the beginning of the convid lockdowns.)
when i do healing work, i am almost always barefoot. and i have a healer friend here in oaxaca who is barefoot 99.9% of the time, even when walking the rough and tumble streets with their threats of glass shards. and so he too is an amazing barefoot healer! i wonder how many of us abound unbound and boundless?
life is amazing and super amazing to be alive in the time of the great apocalypse. we are truly living the bhagavad-gita!
all the best with what is changing. everything changes! with peace, respect, love and exuberant joy.
part 2 of the comment from part 1
here is a link to a more modern translation of the complete works for download.
https://archive.org/details/epictetus-robin-waterfield-the-complete-works-handbook-discourses-and-fragments-2022
and also an extract that caught my eye:
1.19 The Proper Attitude To Have Toward Tyrants
[1] “Arrogance is absolutely inevitable in a person— an uneducatedperson, that is— who enjoys some advantage, or at least thinks he does, even if he doesn’t. [2] A tyrant, for example, claims to be the most powerful man in the world. So what can you do for me with your power? Can you ensure that my desires are never impeded? How could you, when you can’t do that for yourself? That my aversions effectively prevent the occurrence of things I want to avoid? No, because you can’t do that for yourself. That my inclinations never lead me astray? I don’t see that as one of your gifts. [3] Tell me: when you’re on a ship, do you place your trust in yourself or in the expert? When you’re on a wagon— yourself or the expert? [4] What about any other area of expertise? Same story. So what does your power amount to?
“‘I’m the focus of everyone’s attention.’ Yes, and I attend to my plate; I wash it and dry it, and I drive a peg into the wall for my oil flask. Does that make these things more powerful than me? No, but they’re useful to me, and that’s why I attend to them. Don’t I also attend to my donkey? [5] Don’t I wash its feet and rub it down? Can’t you see that everyone attends to his own needs, and attends to you as he does his donkey? I mean, who cares for you as a person? Point him out to me. [6] Who wishes to be like you? Who takes you as a role model, as they do Socrates? ‘But I can have you beheaded.’ You’re right. I’d forgotten that I should attend to you in the same way that I attend to a fever or cholera— that I should set up an altar to you, just as Fever has an altar in Rome.*
[7] “What is it that’s usually found troubling, even frightening? The tyrant? His bodyguards? Is that possible? Hardly! It’s impossible for something that’s naturally free to be troubled or impeded by anything except itself. [8] Only his own judgments trouble a person. When a tyrant tells someone, ‘I’m going to chain your leg,’ only a person who has come to value his leg says, ‘Please, no! Have mercy!’ But anyone who judges his will important says, ‘Go ahead, if you think
p114 Epictetus: the Complete Works
that’s the most expedient thing for you to do.’ ‘Don’t you care?’ ‘No, I don’t.’ [9] ‘I’ll show you that I’m your master.’ ‘How will you do that? Zeus has set me free. Do you really think he’s going to let his own son be enslaved? You’re the master of my carcass: take that.’ [10] ‘You mean to say that when you’re in my presence, I’m not the focus of your attention?’ ‘No, I’m attending to myself. If you want me to tell you that I attend to you as well, here’s what I say: I give you the same kind of attention that I give my kettle.’
[11] “This isn’t selfishness; the creature in question was born like this. It does everything for itself.* Even the sun does everything for itself, and so, for that matter, does Zeus himself. [12] But sometimes Zeus wishes to be ‘the Bringer of Rain,’ ‘the Fruitful,’ and ‘Father of Gods and Men,’ and you can see that he can’t perform these functions and deserve these titles unless he makes some contribution to the common good. [13] And (without going into details) he equipped the rational creature with a nature which is such that its own particular goods are unattainable unless it makes some beneficial contribution to the common good. [14] In which case, doing everything for oneself isn’t selfish. [15] Anyway, do you seriously expect someone to neglect himself and his own interest? In that case, how could all living creatures share the same fundamental drive; namely, appropriation to themselves?
[16] “It follows, then, that when someone entertains uncouth views about things that aren’t subject to will— that is, when he labels such things good and bad— he is absolutely bound to dance attendance on tyrants. [17] If only it was just the tyrants, and not their chamberlains as well! How does a person become wise all of a sudden when Caesar puts him in charge of his closestool? How come we suddenly say, ‘Felicio had some wise words for me’? [18] I’d like to see him demoted from his dung heap, so that you’d regard him once more as a fool. [19] Epaphroditus had a shoemaker who was so useless that he sold him. But then it so happened that the man was bought by a member of Caesar’s household and became Caesar’s shoemaker. You should have seen the respect Epaphroditus showed him! [20] ‘What’s up, Felicio, my very dear friend?’* [21] Moreover, if one of us asked, ‘What’s the master doing?’ he was told, ‘He’s in a meeting with Felicio.’ [22] But hadn’t he sold him as useless? So
discourses, book 1 p115
who suddenly made him wise? [23] This is what happens when someone regards as important anything other than what is subject to will.
[24] “‘He’s been made a tribune.’ Everyone who runs into him offers his congratulations. One kisses his eyes, another his neck, slaves kiss his hands. He goes home and finds lamps being lit for him.* He goes up to the Capitol and offers a sacrifice. [25] But who has ever performed a sacrifice in thanks for the fact that his desires went well, or because his inclinations were in accord with nature? After all, it’s things we count as good for which we thank the gods.[26]
“Someone was talking to me today about the priesthood of Augustus.* ‘Steer well clear of it, man!’ I advised him. ‘You’ll incur considerable expenses for nothing.’ [27] ‘But when bills of sale are drawn up, they’ll be inscribed with my name.’ ‘But you won’t actually be there when people read these contracts, will you? “Look: that’s my name written there.” [28] And then, even supposing that you were in fact able to be physically present at every signing, what will you do after your death?’ ‘My name will survive me.’ ‘Carve your name on a rock and it’ll survive you. But tell me: who will remember you beyond Nicopolis?’ [29] ‘But I’ll wear a golden crown.’ ‘Well, if you really want a crown, get a crown of roses and put it on. That’ll look more chic.’”
1.20 On Reason And Its Ability To Examine Itself
[looks like an interesting discussion.]
all the best with what has changed in 2024! and with everything that is to change in 2025! everything changes! with peace, respect, love and exuberant joy.
🙏❤️🧘♂️🙌☯️🙌🧘♂️❤️🙏
Pretty sure if stoicism and actual philosophy was still taught in schools (not the BS versions currently passing as "philosophy"), we wouldn't have ended up here as a society or had the last 5yrs.😉🤔🤦♀️
yes.
although, at that time, epictetus like gautama did 600 years earlier, that most people did not want to know these truths!
it has come to me that the fear of death as our biggest fear as humans is a kind of ... what ? false flag? distraction? a form of untruth with enough truth to be swallowed easily, perhaps. hmmmm. odd thought. i might extend that idea from my recent post on how the, or at least a, purpose of the moon landing lie was for people to swallow that lie. when we believe lies, imo as i explored there, it extends schismogenesis between body and mind, soul and mind because soul doesn't exist fully without the body.
what is more fearful than death, imo, is to be fully 100% yogic/stoic, which means to be 100% responsible for the experiences of this life. that was the challenge gautama was faced when he was looking for people to understand the meaning of dependent co-arising. epictetus and the other stoics have the same problem: each of us are 100% responsible for the choices we make. most would rather not see that truth, remain in avidya, and so suffer the other 4 kleshas and function outside the realms of the yamas and the niyamas. yes, promote fear of death to keep us sheeple, and downplay the importance of the courage to be responsible! i admit the necromancer-narrative-controllers have done a really excellent job of indoctrinating avidya, to see as false what is true, what is true as that which is false, and that which is neutral as either true or false.
in 2022 someone asked me why so many (so-called) yoga centres did not refuse to comply. why so many did not remain equanimous and indifferent. a great question. i wrote a reply to that that you my find interesting. if interested, no pressure because i am indifferent to your opinion or action and because that is the truth of our experience as we live freely from entanglement, here is:
Q: 'I agree that [yogic calmness] is important, so how do we account for all the yoga teachers who fly Ukraine flags and require masks in their studios?' — Audio
A: Yoga as drug. (note: audio has link to text version if you prefer.)
Guy Duperreault. (Audio version Nov 06, 2024, original from aug 2022.)
https://gduperreault.substack.com/p/q-i-agree-that-yogic-calmness-is-e67
and maybe you might enjoy:
The Buddha's Advice on How to Talk to Cyclops Normies: Acquire the Discipline to Stop Throwing the Second Dart. (text only at this time.)
Guy Duperreault, Apr 25, 2023
https://gduperreault.substack.com/p/the-buddhas-advice-on-how-to-talk
again, barefoot, great to meet you and all the best with what has changed in 2024! and with everything that is to change in 2025! everything changes! with peace, respect, love and exuberant joy.
🙏❤️🧘♂️🙌☯️🙌🧘♂️❤️🙏
hola.
i found my self feeling a greater affinity with the writings of the stoic few people talk about, Epictetus. (although when we search him on line he is often referred to as the greatest voice of stoicism.)
when i read him so many years ago — the 1990s i think — i was astounded that the only thing that distinguished his descriptions of the society and thinking and politics and money was the beautiful and distinct way he spoke. his application of the vital and grounding philosophy of stoicism was a game changer for me. and i was delighted and surprised that it shared many common characteristics with taoism! omg! and that edward de vere (aka shakespeare) was likely both taoist and stoic because stoics see the humour in life!
one of the great lies was to make the perception of stoicism that of being cold and unfeeling, inhuman. to be stoic is to be above human, 'transhuman'! this was to take them out of the game of providing a path, skill, knowledge on how to become 100% reliable on our own selves and not reliable on outside authorities. imo. and now i think i understand why the humanities stopped teaching people like him to teach marxist things like crt, post-modernism, etc: to make people stupid and victims. stoicism is the 180º opposite, of course. and so i just had an aha — the humanities are transhumanist in their action while posturing words of inclusion!
and with having gotten where i am, more completely waking up with the convid from my partially awakening about media and economics from the 1980s, i've recently come to think that stoicism has been subject to attack by the necromancer-narrative-controllers because true stoics do not fall into being easy prey to narcissistic controllers. and that was also what happened to the yogis in ancient india — when the controllers of the day, ie moguls, were trying to take control of their kingdoms, the yogis were uncontrollable. thus it came to pass that teaching yoga became a crime punishable by death.
an example within the debasement or denigration of stoicism is how their idea of 'indifference' or dispassion has come to mean frigidity or coldness of someone uncaring. nope! it means to remain calm and to engage with the 'good' the 'bad', the joyful and the sad with equanimity, with the calmness that allows for appropriate optimal eccentric action in all circumstances. the yogic idea of a mind free from the fluctuations that expand suffering.
from an old translation of his enchiridion — slightly edited https://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html — a kind of short summary. (i preferred his longer 'complete' works,
1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, more simply, all that are not our own actions.
The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. On the other hand if you realise that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you will not be harmed.
Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you chose not to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you quit some things and may for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved.
Work, therefore to know unequivocally the truth that every harsh appearance is no way different from every beautiful one: "You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be." And then examine them by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether they concern the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if they concern anything not in our control, be prepared to say that they are of that which is nothing. end quotation.
as mentioned, i liked his complete works and had a copy of the britannica word's greatest books with that. (with the yoga of aparigraha i wound up selling it with my 1100 other books in 2020 at the beginning of the convid lockdowns.)
end of part 1 of 2 part comment:
👏👏👏👏🙏As a stoic and a yogi- 🎯💯
🙏❤️🧘♂️🙌☯️🙌🧘♂️❤️🙏
mucho gusto barefoot healer.
yes, to be one is at core to be the other. imo.
when i do healing work, i am almost always barefoot. and i have a healer friend here in oaxaca who is barefoot 99.9% of the time, even when walking the rough and tumble streets with their threats of glass shards. and so he too is an amazing barefoot healer! i wonder how many of us abound unbound and boundless?
life is amazing and super amazing to be alive in the time of the great apocalypse. we are truly living the bhagavad-gita!
all the best with what is changing. everything changes! with peace, respect, love and exuberant joy.
🙏❤️🧘♂️🙌☯️🙌🧘♂️❤️🙏